Curse

Thom Bangalter · Mar 05, 2007, 10:50 PM // 22:50

Hi.

my last thread on mending touch got locked because basically It was just me QQing, so I'm making a new thread.

Compare mending touch to other condition removals. Plague touch requires you to be in touch range of a foe and doesn't give a heal. Signet of malice requires the foe to suffer from a condition. Both of these remove one condi. Mending touch, on the other hand, just requires you to MT yourself, get a 25 or 50 point heal, works with expertise, and has no hoop to jump through (however small) to work.

mending touch could use a nerf, but signet of malice is fine. signet of malice requires a lot more micromanagement and skill, so it makes sense that it should be more powerful than mending touch. Mending touch is the gimmick equivilant of signet of malice, and it really doesn't have any place in a balanced game.

(thanks for the template squidget, I'm going to use it all the time)

Thom · Mar 05, 2007, 11:12 PM // 23:12

Mending touch requires a monk secondary. It should be no suprise that a monk secondary has a good unconditional removal skill. Since most melee/projectile builds don't use a secondary, this isn't a huge hurdle. Plague touch may still be a better skill for melee.

Its a strong skill, but I don't think it is imbalanced.

Eilsys · Mar 05, 2007, 11:22 PM // 23:22

The skill itself isn't totally ownage, but it's way better than Signet of Malice, Mend Ailment, Dismiss Condition, Purge Conditions or Antidote Signet (complete garbage). Dunno if you'd want to buff the non-Monk options or what...

They should definitely get rid of the working with Expertise part, that's kind of stupid.

Franco Power · Mar 05, 2007, 11:24 PM // 23:24

Mending Touch is a monk skill therefore it should give healing unlike plague touch and signet of malice which are necro and assassin skills.
Hey News Flash, Plague touch also works with expertise, signet of malice doesn't even cost energy because it's a signet, and with all the YAA warriors running it, works almost the same way.
A 25 point heal is really nothing, the benefit with plague touch sure it doesn't heal you, but your foe suffers from it instead of you, I think that's enough.

Like Thom said, It's a good skill but it's not imbalanced, maybe the recharge time could be increased a bit but that's about it.

remmeh · Mar 06, 2007, 12:07 AM // 00:07

The only thing I'd like to see changed about Mending Touch is cast time (increase to 1 second so it's easily dshottable) or increase recharge to say, 6s.

Patccmoi · Mar 06, 2007, 01:14 AM // 01:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by remmeh

The only thing I'd like to see changed about Mending Touch is cast time (increase to 1 second so it's easily dshottable) or increase recharge to say, 6s.

I'd see them both. Imo it should be 5/1/6.

Mending Touch IS superior to other options. Clearly. And it doesn't matter that it's /Mo or /A or /W. It's a self-condition removal and as such should be comparable in terms of efficiency to other self-condition removals. It's /Mo so it heals you, that's fine, and though the heal is minor, 50 health usually counters whatever degen you could've got before you remove the conditions which is good enough.

5/1/6 would still leave it as a pretty strong option. 5/.75/4 just makes it far above all the competition. It's spammable, the most unconditional, and it removes 2 conditions at once for sure ON TOP of having an extra effect (you're healed).

Another option would be to leave it as it is but remove the healing part (monks would still get heal through DF), but i think that's a worse idea.

Razz L Dazzle · Mar 06, 2007, 01:52 AM // 01:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patccmoi

I'd see them both. Imo it should be 5/1/6.

Mending Touch IS superior to other options. Clearly. And it doesn't matter that it's /Mo or /A or /W. It's a self-condition removal and as such should be comparable in terms of efficiency to other self-condition removals. It's /Mo so it heals you, that's fine, and though the heal is minor, 50 health usually counters whatever degen you could've got before you remove the conditions which is good enough.

5/1/6 would still leave it as a pretty strong option. 5/.75/4 just makes it far above all the competition. It's spammable, the most unconditional, and it removes 2 conditions at once for sure ON TOP of having an extra effect (you're healed).

Another option would be to leave it as it is but remove the healing part (monks would still get heal through DF), but i think that's a worse idea.

I like the above nerf to Mending touch but i'd like to see it scaled. Mending touch removes 1..2 conditions and heals ally for X. Have the breakpoint at 8 prot and i think it's still a good monk skill but covering conditions will be more of a threat than they are now.

utherorm · Mar 06, 2007, 02:07 AM // 02:07

the broken stuff here are hexes, not one skill.

Thom Bangalter · Mar 06, 2007, 08:23 AM // 08:23

I'd like to see 5/1/6 and reduce the healing at lower specs as my proposed solution, or have it 5/1/4 and have the codi removal scale to 2 at like 8 or 9.

Patrick Smit · Mar 06, 2007, 10:04 AM // 10:04

If it would be scaling with prot attribute level that may be enough. One removed each four seconds is quite ok and other options become competitive or even more attractive. Blind can do some work if covered, YAA still keeps em crippled unless high prot. First I would try this, and later if it didn't change enough, mess around with other parameters.

Riotgear · Mar 06, 2007, 10:11 AM // 10:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by utherorm

the broken stuff here are hexes, not one skill.

Yay for random off-topic comments.

And yes, 5/1/6 for Mending. I don't like the idea of removing 1..2 conditions because a cheap way to self-remove conditions is something that the game has been severely lacking for a while. Purge is terrible, and almost every other decent condition remover only works on others. The problem is simply that it is TOO cheap, and is making cover conditions more or less irrelevant.

Quote:

Both of these remove one condi.

Signet of Malice removes however many conditions the target has.

As far as MT working with Expertise, I don't think it really matters. 5e is cheap with or without Expertise. I'd rather see Natural Stride (a.k.a. non-elite Escape) get whacked with the nerf bat before they even think about changing Expertise's effects on MT.

Wild Karrde · Mar 06, 2007, 10:20 AM // 10:20

This skill isnt imballanced at all.

Look at it this way, Who over 90% of the time are the only ones who use this skill? Warriors or Assassins. Both classes have to hit you to do dmg. If a Ranger with apply poison keeps hitting them with apply poison and the said sin or war spams MT then the warrior will definatly sap his energy, which if hes running with HB as his elite will make it worthless, or any other energy based skill he has. An assassin wont have as much trouble with the energy management but hes still not helping at all by sapping his energy. In either case if they are spamming MT they are NOT attacking which means they are doing NO damage which means they have eliminated themselves from the battle entirely. If they stop spamming it then the Conditions will be put right back on.

MT is fine the way it is. And if a monk is using it they have to get up to the front line to use it cause they have to touch the said being who is affected. which puts the monk in harms way especially form AoE attacks. I think they would rather use dismiss conditions or something of that sort.

.defekt · Mar 06, 2007, 11:06 AM // 11:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riotgear

Mending Touch is rarely ever used on anyone but the person casting it.

Have you ever split? Ever?

Riotgear · Mar 06, 2007, 11:23 AM // 11:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by .defekt

Have you ever split? Ever?

Pardon my lack of experience. I admittedly don't do GvG much, so occasionally I'll talk out of my ass. I've never split off the RC, so it never concerned me personally. :P

Deleted the post. Not because I made myself look like a moron, because I do that all the time, but because it goes against my usual policy of entertaining posts which have no basis in reality. I'll let someone else do the flaming. Though I still want to know what "HB" is.

Ruricu · Mar 06, 2007, 11:57 AM // 11:57

If anything, Mending touch needs to be buffed to "skill" rather than "spell" if it were to take up the 5/1/6 setting... It's the only real way for a monk to remove a covered daze with their primary, but 1 1/2 sec easily interruptible is pretty brutal. I'm not saying it would be impossible to interrupt as a 1 second cast, but it would require a lot more skill and make it so taking Temple Strike into RA doesn't guarantee that you could kill Soul Wedding.

red orc · Mar 06, 2007, 01:15 PM // 13:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thom Bangalter

Hi.

Compare mending touch to other condition removals. Plague touch requires you to be in touch range of a foe and doesn't give a heal. Signet of malice requires the foe to suffer from a condition. Both of these remove one condi. Mending touch, on the other hand, just requires you to MT yourself, get a 25 or 50 point heal, works with expertise, and has no hoop to jump through (however small) to work.

You cannot compare mending touch to any of the skills you talk about.
Plague touch enables to to move a condition from you to a foe, this is more than just removing a condition it is also inflicting a condition of a foe, it is much much stronger than mending touch and hench the rechage time.
Signet of malice enabes you to cure yourself in your primary attribute, you dont have to be a/mo but can keep a/whatever + remove condition.
In addition, no monk with half wits will pack mending touch into his bar. dismiss condition will come first. The only place mending touch is used is for self heal for non monks and monk runners. The skill needs some modification to demand spending attributes from non monks wanting to run it, but saying its is over powered is too much.

Shuuda · Mar 06, 2007, 01:20 PM // 13:20

Mending touch does seem a bit overpowered, compared to most condition removers, but remember.

Daze > Mending touch
Daze < Plaque touch or Sig of malice.

qvtkc · Mar 06, 2007, 02:39 PM // 14:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thom Bangalter

I'd like to see 5/1/6 and reduce the healing at lower specs as my proposed solution, or have it 5/1/4 and have the codi removal scale to 2 at like 8 or 9.

A Mending Touch that removes only one condition? [skill]Mend Ailment[/skill] Oh look what people would take instead of MT. Same cost, shorter cast, 1 second longer recharge. And it's ranged.

The powerful thing about Mending Touch is that it removes two conditions. This is balanced because it is touch range. Two conditions removed from your team, same as Plague Touch, which is one removed and one added to the enemy team. The current recharge and heal is fine too. I say keep it as it is.

Phades · Mar 06, 2007, 03:54 PM // 15:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shuuda

Mending touch does seem a bit overpowered, compared to most condition removers, but remember.

Daze > Mending touch
Daze < Plaque touch or Sig of malice.

Which casters use plauge touch or sig of malice?

Which physical attackers care about dazed?

Razz L Dazzle · Mar 06, 2007, 04:10 PM // 16:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by qvtkc

A Mending Touch that removes only one condition? [skill]Mend Ailment[/skill] Oh look what people would take instead of MT. Same cost, shorter cast, 1 second longer recharge. And it's ranged.

The powerful thing about Mending Touch is that it removes two conditions. This is balanced because it is touch range. Two conditions removed from your team, same as Plague Touch, which is one removed and one added to the enemy team. The current recharge and heal is fine too. I say keep it as it is.

Touch range doesn't necessarily make it balanced. It's far too powerful on a split and on non-monk characters which is why some feel it deserves a minor nerf. There's already plenty of condition control with the 3 games worth of skills. Mending touch decided to kill cover conditions which were powerful in a split situation. The only removes one condition would be if the ally using it has less than 8 in prot. Meaning this would still be good for a prot. monk who always specs more than 8, so he doesn't notice the nerf. The non-monk user Ranger, Ele, Warrior now have to be somewhat concerned about cover conditions as they have an effective condition removal but it would now only remove 1 as they wouldn't spec 8 in prot.